Introduction
When one first comes to Robert, one sees a white haired, white bearded man with very penetrating eyes who often appears to stare into emptiness. He appears to not be of this world. But it is when he speaks, that you know with absolute certainty that he is not of this world.
What he says is astounding. In effect he says that all that we know, all that we believe we are, is false--a lie. We are not what we think we are. We are not a body, not a mind, not a thing. This entire phenomenal world is an illusion. Our true nature is absolute awareness untouched by body, mind or world, and we must awaken to this absolute nature.
Robert says: "Because you believe yourself to be a body, you believe you are the doer in charge of everything. But you have nothing to do with that. Being awake is being aware of all that is happening is happening spontaneously, and that it has nothing to do with you. Grass grows spontaneously, but we can imagine it grows because of our involvement. The same is true of the activities of our bodies.
I see the world as superimposed images on the screen. I am always aware that you are images, and so is the body, the trees, the sky and everything else. For some reason, I am always aware of that. I am aware that the world is like a bubble, which when it bursts, reality expresses itself as consciousness. I see you as you see me, but I see you as consciousness, the reality, much like a screen, and the whole universe is a superimposition on that screen."
Now presented with this astounding idea, what do you do? Most pay no attention--even many deeply spiritual people. The idea that we don't exist as a body-mind is too much to accept and we walk on. But for a very few, a deep heart-chord is struck. In awe, we begin to remember who we really are.
Robert: I consider this group my spiritual family. We are all one.
People still ask me, "Robert, what do you see when you look at us? Do you see energy? Do you see consciousness? Do you see a play of lights? Do you see emptiness?"
If I saw any of these things I wouldn't be able to function. I see what you see. You! The only difference is I realize I am not the body. When I say I am not the body, I mean the universal body, which contains you. Therefore, if I am not the body, and I see that, I see that you are also not the body. I see the world as superimposed images on the screen. I am always aware that you are images, and so is the body, the trees, the sky and everything else.
For some reason, I am always aware of that. I am aware that the world is like a bubble, which when it bursts, reality expresses itself asconsciousness. I see you as you see me, but I see you as consciousness--the reality. When I see you as I see myself, as a screen, the whole universe is a superimposition on that screen.
I do not see you as a human being. I do not the radio, the table or the lamp as entities in themselves. I see them as consciousness.
This does not mean that consciousness manifested these things. Consciousness is self-contained and only manifests itself. These objects are like optical illusions. They do not really exist as just as dream objects do not exist.
In a dream you do many things, see many things and everything appears to be real. Then you wake up and the bubble is burst. The only difference between you and me is that I am always aware of that.
If you are always aware of that, there is no fear. Fear only comes when you believe the world to be real. When the world proves to be illusion, where is there fear? What can upset you when you know that the world is a dream?
You may say, "I don't want to be hurt in the dream. I want my dream to be smooth and easy. I want to be happy and healthy." If you think like this, you are not aware yet of what consciousness is. Consciousness transcends all that. Consciousness is
divine harmony. Nothing in the world exists. I know this is hard to comprehend.
Terrible things can appear to happen to my body and my life, yet I am aware that it is not happening. I am not imagining it is not happening, I am not repressing it or telling myself to think positively. It is beyond all this. There is no good, no bad. It is total freedom, total liberation.
You have an idea of what God is. Can you imagine God having fear? Can you imagine God complaining about how things are going, or judging this or that to be right and wrong, or saying, "I'd rather have this than that." There is no duality in God.
The universe is ultimate oneness beyond concepts. The mind cannot comprehend it.
When we begin to quiet the mind, you begin to have this understanding. As the thoughts slow down, you become more aware that all is well. Reality comes to you by itself. As long as you identify with the world and the things of this world, you can never know the truth about yourself.
You may say, "I've got to function in the world, I have to work." Who says you don't? But all this has nothing to do with you. Your body will take care of itself. The dream will go on by itself. You will do whatever you came to earth to do, without you thinking about it, without you trying to make something happen or trying to improve the world. This is what I mean when I say, "Be yourself." Just be yourself. Live in the eternal now. Allow the world to unfold as it should spontaneously. Look at everything with reverence and awe, as fresh and new. Then ask yourself, "Who am I?" Things will begin to happen.
The closest that you can come to an experience of quiet mind is through chanting. The vibration has the effect on the nervous system to slow it down. Many people cannot practice self-enquiry. Others need a break from self-enquiry. So play a chanting tape and chant along with it. You will find that you go deeper into yourself, and your mind will become quiet, still, calm.
Some people tell me they like the talks better than anything else we do. Others say they like the chanting best. Some say they like the questions and answers best. Others say they like the silence most. Remember this is Satsang. It is not a lecture or a musical performance. Everything we do is important. Even if I just spoke about the weather and nothing else. Just being at Satsang causes something to take place in consciousness, lifting you higher.
There was once a holy man who died and went to heaven. He approached the Pearly Gates and knocked. God came out an asked, "What do you want?" The holy man replied, "I am your servant. I have come." God said, "Sorry, there is no room for you here. Goodbye."
The holy man sat down and started to gaze in silence to ponder this. "Why won't God let me in? I've been good. I've practiced the scriptures." He pondered this for six months.
Finally, he said to himself: "I've got the answer." He knocked on the door, and God came to the gate. He said, "Let me in. I'm your humble servant. The one who has chanted your name for centuries, who has bowed to you, who has prayed to you."
God said, "I'm sorry. There is no room for you here." Again, he closed the door. This time the holy man became completely upset. He didn't know what the problem was. He had been a good person, a holy person. Why won't that guy let me in. He said to himself, "I'm going to sit here forever, if I have to, until I come up with the right answer."
Centuries passed and he pondered. Remember, he was dead anyway, so it didn't matter. (Laughter) After this long period of pondering why he hadn't been let in, he paused and asked himself, "Wait a minute, who is this I who wants to get into heaven? Who is the I that chanted God's name? Who practiced the scriptures? Who am I?"
All of a sudden, he started laughing. The answer came.
He got up and knocked on the door of heaven. God came to the door and said: "Who is this?" The holy man said: "It is thou." God opened the gate and said: "Come in, my son. There never was enough room in here for both me and you."
So it with us. We claim we want to be self-realized. We don't realize we are already self-realized. We just have to let go of the belief that I am the doer.
It makes no difference what you have done in the past, so far as self-realization is concerned. Once you know the truth, you become free. The truth is there is no past. There never was a past. The universe has no foundation. There is nothing to hold it together. Therefore, there is nothing you have done that can keep you out of heaven, so to speak.
This does not give you license to go out and do evil because it doesn't matter--not at all! As far as you are concerned, as long as you believe you are the doer, and the body-mind phenomena, everything you do has to be accounted for. The law of karma will get you. As long as you believe you are human, you can't get away with anything.
As long as you believe you a human, a personal I, then there us a personal God. This is where prayer comes in. You can pray to that God and you will be helped. Your personal god will take care of you if you surrender and submit. When you submit, you are giving up your ego. You are saying, "I am nothing and you are everything." This will help you. One day you will awaken to the fact that the God you have been praying to is none other than yourself.
How can this God be separate from you? Where would he live? What would be His nature? You begin to understand that, "I am That." You find freedom in yourself. You begin to see that: God is not within me, but that I am in God. What I had called God isconsciousness. I am conscious. I am aware. I exist. I am. There is nothing else. You begin to see yourself as omnipresent. You are no longer limited to your body or to the personal I.
Your job is to keep the mind from wandering. The mind has to be held by you. Your mind is not your friend. It makes you human. It makes you believe you are a body, separate. When you see that the body is an emanation of the mind, that it has no existence whatsoever except in your mind, you also begin to see that the body of the universe is the same as your body. It is a manifestation of mind. This brings the beginning of freedom. Bondage begins to break up. You look at the world and realize the world is the self. I am that self. There is nothing else.
You want to share this truth with your friends and family, but you can not. There are no words to describe this. Everywhere you look you see freedom. Everywhere you look, you see love. You have nothing to fear and nothing to fight. All is well.
It comes first as an idea. Something like that happens to you. It's as if you were awakened from a long sleep. In this awakening, there is no past and no future. There is just beingness. You have just become yourself. You have not become anything foreign or strange. You simply awaken to yourself. You feel wonderful.
Ask yourself who you are. If you believe yourself to be human, you will experience human happiness and sadness. You can never know the self with this belief. It has nothing to do with your human goodness. Some people say they never had a bad day in their life. They are stuck in their goodness. You have to go beyond all understanding, beyond conceptual thinking, beyond anything known to man--to silence. Everything leads to silence.
In silence, you experience pure awareness. In silence, you experience bliss. It is in silence that you are. You are not anything that you can describe. You have become the pure Godhead. You have wakened.
Why not awaken now? Why continue to play games? Wake up. Know who you are. Be yourself. Leave the world alone. Your body, as it appears to you, will function in the world, doing whatever it came here to do. But leave it alone. Do not interfere with processes. Do not react to any conditioning. Identify with the self. The self is I Am. Become aware that I Am. That is how you identify with yourself. You feel, I Am. I Am. I Am. If anything comes after that, inquire, "To whom has this come?" I am not this, I am not that. I Am.
Even if the word 'God' comes after I Am, your mind is playing tricks. Ask, "To whom does the word 'God' come?" I am will suffice. That is all you have to be. I Am. Everything else is superfluous. Whatever idea comes into your mind, inquire as to whom it comes. Listen to the silence. Listen to I Am.
(Long pause)
Some people wonder if it is good to ask questions at Satsang. Some are afraid to appear stupid. If you don't understand the teachings, ask questions. On the other hand, if you come here with the right attitude, all questions will be answered from within yourself. Don't hesitate to ask questions about anything at all.
Q: Is there a period of assimilation after enlightenment where the understanding deepens and changes one?
R: There is no deepening involved. You're either awake or you are not. There is an appearance of however, that you become more peaceful, and all the things that used to disturb you, seem to dissipate.
Q: So there is a process as realization occurs?
R: It is not really a process of realization; its a process to become a better person. Awakening comes by itself and has nothing to do with that. The appearance of improvement happens also, but has nothing to do with realization.
Q: So you become a better person after self-realization?
R: No, not after. After realization there is nobody left to be a better person. The better person comes before. On the other hand, there have been thieves and murderers, who suddenly, for some reason or another, have become self-realized. It depends on the person. Again, you are either awake or asleep. There is no in-between. Once you wake up, you realize you have always been awake. There never was a time when you were not. Before that awakening though, you have to go through all kinds experiences and practices--sometimes. It depends on the maturity of the person.
Q: What if the person is immature, and they have a realization of the self, is the immaturity healed by the realization?
R: If a person awakens, there is no question of immaturity. There is no one left to be mature or immature. You are just awake. All that we are talking about goes on before awakening.
Q: What about the sinners who have an awakening. What happens to all the karma they generated?
R: They are completely burnt up. They never existed.
Q: Can you walk over here and wake me up?
R: As far as I am concerned, you are already awake. You have to be able to see it yourself.
Q: Can someone awaken another by touching them?
R: It is very rare, but it is possible. It usually happens to a person who has been on a spiritual path for many lives. Then through a touch or a glance, they fall all the way and break through Maya and become free.
If you are asking whether I can do that, there is no I left to do anything. If I were to do that, there would be a me and a you; but there is no me and there is no you. There is only ultimate oneness. There is one self. There is no one left to do anything to anyone else. The doing is part of the dream. When awakening comes, there is only one. There is no doer. Yogis do things like touching, but not Jnanis.
Many awakened people around Ramana Maharshi, claimed that when he looked at them or accidentally touched them, it caused an awakening process. He denied everything. It depends on the maturity of the individual. Anything is possible.
Q: Can eating meat slow down the awakening process?
R: As far as I am concerned, its morally correct to be a vegetarian. The soul become purified. You come closer to realization. Eating meat pulls you down to earth. Scriptures talk of the three gunas. Meat eaters have Tamasic qualities, which are the lowest qualities of humans. Therefore, it is better not to eat meat. Your thinking becomes clearer and you are able to absorb the higher teachings.
Aspirants should eat Satvic food, such as grains, vegetables mainly in small meals. Observe a day of fasting once a week or so. Food should not be important to you. Whatever is set before you, you should eat, and not think about it too much. People get lost in food, constantly worried about which food is right, which food is bad, which food makes you live longer. In the end, everyone dies anyway. It doesn't make that much difference.
Q: If the soul becomes purified, what is soul?
R: Soul is something that a human thinks it has. As long as you think you are a human, then there is a soul that leaves the body after it dies and plays games with itself in astral planes. When you understand I am not the body or the doer, for whom is there a soul? There is no body, no soul, no astral plane. There is only the self.
Q: Isn't the soul identical to self when it is purified of all personal I and mind?
R: No. If there were a soul identical to self, that would be duality, for there would be two. The soul cannot become purified into self. The soul is part of the personal I. The self is soul-less. Why would the self need a soul?
Q: Then you are saying the soul is the mind?
R: The soul is the mind, the personal I. All these are manifestations of your own thoughts. In truth, there is no thing but the self, and I Am is that. We get caught up in all these concepts; they keep us earth-bound.
For example, in my diet, I eat grains, fruits and vegetables, but I don't give much thought to it. My body automatically arises and eats to sustain itself. Yet I have nothing to do with that.
Q: How can I do all the practical things I need to do in the state of mind of I am not the body?
R: If you really knew you were not the body, that question would never come to you. The body will always take care of itself. Who grows oranges in the orange tree? Who makes the grass grow? That same power will take care of your body. You don't have to worry about it. Everything will be O.K. Your body will not walk into the street in front of a truck, unless you are daydreaming. You will be awake! Being awake is not being in a stupor.
Because you believe yourself to be a body, you believe you are the doer, in charge of everything, making meals, walking, shopping. But you have nothing to do with that. Being awake is being aware of all of this that is happening, spontaneously, which has nothing to do with you. Grass grows spontaneously, but we can imagine we are making it grow with our willpower. The same with the activities of our bodies. Actually, they function better when you don't think about them. Therefore, be yourself and watch what transpires.
Q: All this seems so difficult to understand. I feel like I'll never get it. You have said in the past that I should never say such a thing. Is this from knowing that words have power?
R: As long as you are on the physical plane, words and mind do have power. Your words come from your mind. When you say something negative about yourself, you keep yourself earthbound. Even if you make a mistake, realize you node a mistake then think about it and go forward. Don't dwell on the error. See it, correct it if you can, then leave it behind. Keep your mind on yourself, on I Am. You will find everything goes well for you.
Q: In the Bible, it says that in the beginning was the word. Is this an example of the power of words, to cause creation?
R: Actually, it is referring to the prime word 'Om'. The first current of creation was Om. Out of Om came creation. If you want to back to creation, chant Om, and you will get to creation's cause.
But we teach there never was a creation. No thing has ever been created. Everything you observe, everything, everything, is a manifestation of your mind, and your mind does not exist. Nothing exists. First, you realize everything comes out of your mind. Then you realize that mind doesn't exist, and you will be free.
Q: Ramana Maharshi used to say the self is experienced in the right side of the chest in the spiritual heart. Is this your experience?
R: The reason Ramana said that is that certain people needed a physical point to concentrate on. They asked where God is, and realization is, and he pointed to the right side of his chest, the spiritual heart.
But in truth, there is no spiritual heart. There is only the self; there is only absolute reality. But those naive people needed a place to work from, and he pointed to the heart center.
You never had a body. Why would you want to feel things in your body? Anything felt in the body is part of the illusion of the body.
Remember when I speak of your body, I am referring to the body of the universe. What you see as an individual body, is many bodies. When you realize there is one body, and that is the body of the universe, then everything becomes one. Then that goes. Then there is nobody whatsoever. You become free.
Q: Why emphasize freedom so much?
R: We are not. 'Freedom' is just a word to express that you are not what you appear to be. You are not bound to anything. There is no bondage. There is no limitation. You are not bound to the earth or to your body.
Q: You nullify everything that is, and what is can be beautiful.
R: Anything that is beautiful in this world is temporary.
Q: What's wrong with that?
R: What's wrong is that you are living the mortal dream. Whatever is temporary must come to an end. Then you will experience the other side--unhappiness, sorrow. You experience everything as a mortal being. But who wants to go through life experiencing good and bad, ups and downs? Then you die. Then you repeat everything all over again. You want to get off the wheel and become everlasting joy, pure awareness. You want to go beyond what appears to be.
Remember, it is your mortal self that sees the good and bad in the world. Surely, you want to go beyond this into eternity. If you don't want to, stay where you are. This is why I say, everyone is in there right place. There are no mistakes.
This talk was recorded, transcribed, entitled, edited and manufactured, by Ed Muzika, Ph.D. Copyright, Jnana Marga Society, 1992
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